Relief in Sight?
July 7, 2009 | 5:42 am
29 
By Tracy Ringolsby
The Rockies replaced lefty Randy Flores with left-hander Franklin Morales in the bullpen after Monday’s game.
They announced that right-hander Manny Corpas, sidelined with right elbow inflamation, will begin a rehab assignment, which should have him ready to return after the All-Star Break.
Is that enough?
Do the Rockies need more bullpen health?
Tagged:
we need bullpen help, I don’t think morales and corpas are going to cut it. They will/should help, but corpas has been up and down this year and it would be nice to have a SOLID 7th/8th inning guy or a guy that can come in and get strikeouts to stop a threat late in the game.
It’s hard to argue that we don’t need bullpen help. Outside of Street and to some extent Embree, the track record of the guys in the pen is just not there. These are a group of reclamation projects. The group seems to be missing that stable, veteran presence, the guys who’ve been through everything a reliever goes through and come out with their confidence still intact.
I know he pitched terribly the last few weeks he was here, but I think we’re ultimately going to miss Jason Grilli, who’s been scored on only once in eleven appearances since joining Texas. I hope that Dan will recognize that we have such depth in the outfield that a trade can be made without too much pain.
My bigger concern is whether the rotation will hold up through the end of the season. They’ve been terrific over the past six weeks, but the pitch counts have increased substantially. I can’t disagree with Tracy pitching them longer, but it does raise the concern about fatigue and injuries down the stretch. The Rockies aren’t going to run away with the wild card, and getting to the post season will require a consistent performance in September. How will Cook and Marquis, for example, fare in innings 200-230 this year, since that’s the pace they’re on? At least a part of the overuse of the starters has been fear of what will happen when you turn the game over to the pen. For evidence, look at the Cook and Jimenez starts against the snakes.
And, just for grins, can anyone offer a theory about why Josh Fogg is still here? He hasn’t pitched in forever. Is he now just a clubhouse mascot (who can occasionally mop up a blowout)?
Morales is a start, but they need at least Corpas to come back strong and Daley to get back to pre-ankle sprain form. As Paul said, if the Rockies really want to make a go of it in September, the starters can’t be expected to go 8 innings every game. They need the bullpen to back them up.
Look, every serious contender needs not one, but TWO high-level closer type arms. Look at the late 90s Yankees (Wetteland, Rivera), the Sox of 07(Okijima, Papelbon), etc. The Rockies can’t contend without a reliable arm to get us to Street in the 8th inning. I like this ballclub, but O’Dowd has to move Spilly/Atkins to get us a strong middle reliever.
I have to disagree with Paul, I don’t see that the pitch counts for the starters have been exceptionally high. Ubaldo did pitch two games in a row with the count over 120, but other than that the counts have been reasonable. The starters seem to have gotten more efficient than what we are used to in the past, thus able to go deeper in the game.
But yeah, we need someone to turn to when the starters don’t go 7-8 innings. That’s what did in Hurdle. Seems like every time he put in a relief pitcher, bad things happened. I don’t see that much has improved since. It’s a crap shoot if anyone from the pen outside of Street will be effective.
Getting Corpas back is a help as he seemed to have his swagger back before the injury, and putting Morales in the pen is interesting. The guy can strike out anyone when he’s on his game.
And don’t forget Monfort was quoted in the Post this morning they will not trade away the young talent for a reliever. Which means someone else would have to be on the block. Do we want to lose a Spilly or a Smith for example to help out the bull pen? Since the Rocks are deep in outfield talent, I would have to say yes, but would sure hate to lose either one of those guys.
One problem with acquiring another 8th inning type arm is that they’re expensive. You’ve either got to find a gem hidden in a trash pile or trade something more valuable than Spilly/Atkins (prospects).
However, I do think the Rockies have to at least try and make calls. Having another strong reliever rather than a Grilli/Herges type would allow all the other arms to move down a role. If Corpas recovers his June form and if he’ll stay healthy, he could be the guy, but it seems like that’s too pretty big ifs there.
FWIW, the 2004 Sox bullpen was poor for a series winner. An aging Curt Leskanic was on the postseason roster after all, and he did not pitch in the majors after that season. They had a multi-inning capable closer at the top of his game (Foulke) and two setup guys who were reliable but not close to dominant (Timlin and Embree). Like the Rockies, they rode strong performances from their starters. OTOH, they took a rather improbable path to the championship.
Fogg: I guess he is seen as a long reliever (for early innings) and perhaps starting pitching depth. What low leverage innings there have been (and there have been few), it looks like Tracy may be trying to get more work, or at least a read, on Embree and Rincon.
I don’t think you can trade smith. You cannot argue with his pinch hit stats. unreal!
I agree with most of what you all have said. 8th inning is the key. For some reason, and I know he can be lights out sometimes, I’m never completely comfortable when Corpas comes in. Can’t explain it, maybe its just me. Like Mike said, there’s some pretty big “IFs” with Corpas.
Now, that being said, when he gets back and healthy, he’s probably our best 8th inning guy right now. If we traded (Atkins, Spilly, etc, etc-the usual names in the pot) for a PROVEN 8th inning guy, I’d be OK with it, its just that Corpas can drive me nuts because one day he’s lights out, then the next he may walk in a run. Is he better than what we can get out there? That’s why I’m not a general manager…
Go Rockies!
on a side note, its nice to not be talking about how terrible the club is and how were going to lose 65 games
This season will be decided by the bullpen. The starters are incredibly the 7th best in the majors with a 4.02 ERA with over 500 innings pitched, but the bullpen is ranked 29th just ahead of the Nationals with a 5.03 ERA (also pitched the fewest innings around 220).
Good discussion here. I’m excited about Franklin’s return. I think he can be a really big help IF – there’s that word with him and Corpas – he is the Good Frankie most of the time. Ditto Manny. He makes me nervous too.
It would be great to find a good reliever or two, but who? And aren’t about 20 other teams shopping that market as well?
BTW, what ANOTHER performance by Marquis! Who knew? Lightning in a bottle! Sign that man to a contract!
If Morales can adjust to the bullpen, he will help out a lot and Corpas will help out too. Corpas even with his inconsistencies is far better than everybody in the pen. Except for Street of course.
Trip, the pitch counts have been a lot higher under Tracy. We all have different opinions on whether or not that is a good thing, but they have definitely been higher. Marquis pitched a game into the 120′s, then his next start couldn’t get out of the 4th with blister problems. Blister related to the start before???? Who knows, but it is a weird coincendence.
I would be real interested to see if Corpas comes back and is successful in the 8th inning role, if Tracy lowers the pitch counts back down with the starters. I would hope he would cuz I really don’t like seeing Ubaldo pitching 115-125 pitches every start.
I personally would rather the Rox save the money rather than spending it on Marquis. He is going to command a pretty good salary and I’m sure a few years too. Don’t sign him unless it’s dirt cheap and take the compensation picks instead. Then spend that money somewhere else. Marquis has been way to inconsistent in his career, basically going with one good year then one off year. Every other year isn’t a good return. So it would be a big risk in my opinion, but WOW, how can you not be excited about what he has done so far this year.
With regards to Josh Fogg – he has one role, and that is of a long reliever. He’s a groundball pitcher who, when his cutter is effective, can keep the ball low in the strike zone. He won’t get many strikeouts, but he’ll get the job done when a starter is ineffective. That’s his job, and it suits him well. There are a lot of questions coming out of the bullpen.
Peralta has been used in a sort-of setup role this year with Corpas being out, but lately he’s been ineffective. He’s too prone to get hit for the long ball. The same concerns can be said about Juan Rincon, who is also a big question mark.
Corpas has good stuff, and as we remember from 2007, he can be a very effective reliever. He has lacked the consistency needed to be the 8th inning guy, much less a closer. Corpas has some questions surrounding him, specifically being lit up when he can’t keep his slider low. If Corpas can control his slider, he can be effective; but again, with the recent injury, I do not see him being used as more than a right-handed specialist until he can prove himself as a long term, late inning answer.
I see Morales being a good 8th inning guy, or even a starter. De La Rosa has great, nasty stuff when he’s on. But he’s prone to get overwhelmed in high pressure situations, so unless he can adjust the way he did in the second half of 2008, his long-term viability as a starter can be questioned. If he falters, look for Morales to be the #5 guy, and De La Rosa being used potentially as an 8th inning setup guy. He can get strikeouts, and that’s usually what you want in that type of role.
It’ll be interesting to see what exactly they will do; ultimately, they need two major things. A right handed specialist would be pretty nice to have, and an 8th inning setup guy. If Corpas can return to form, and Morales proves to be effective, you have to question if a reliever at the deadline is really necessary.
It’s a big matter of playing “wait-and-see” at this point; the Rockies are loaded with young talent. I’m reluctant to even say that they need to make a move, yet.
Dustin,
Yup, it’s a whole lot more interesting and fun now than earlier. Thanks for reminding us.
Derrek, I agree with you, the starters pitch count is higher now than under Hurdle. My point is at this stage of the season most starters should be able to go 100-120 pitches per game. But the counts are higher because the pitchers are pitching better now.
The number of pitches will vary from pitcher to pitcher of course. Ubaldo has an easy throwing motion, so he can probably handle more pitches than anyone else on the team. I would be more inclined to keep the pitch count down for someone like a DLR however. Not necessarily because of his pitching motion, but to help him build up confidence. In earlier years Hurdle did that regularly to help with a pitchers confidence.
And of course other factors need to be taken into account. I don’t like seeing a pitcher exceed 120 two outings in a row for example. Or if there were a lot of traffic, that is more stressful than an easy 1-2-3 inning.
And was Marquis long outing a cause for the blister and bad next start? Quite possibly. But now he’s built up a little more callous on his finger and maybe that won’t be a factor next time.
Who knows? Just having fun talking baseball…. grin*
Marquis is being paid over $9 million this year; he didn’t come cheap and will not be cheap in the future. He plays the game like it is supposed to be played; hard, honest and full bore. He hits, he runs the bases, he slides to break up double plays; he’s not a sissy pitcher. He has brought a toughness to that staff that they sorely needed. I say sign him up for a couple more years.
Tracy – Corpas and Morales COULD be enough, but they have to execute. NO excuses any more; execute. If the Rockies are to challenge for the division or the wild card slot, ALL of the players have to execute. We have had enough guys who have potential but who mentally struggle.
With some success, the heat is now on.
I love it.
So what are the odds that Street will be traded as we get close to the trading deadline? He would get a great return right now, probably more than what Holliday gathered, and earning 4+ mil I could see O’Dowd doing that.
If they are still in contention the last week of July, I would be shocked (and horrified) if Street were traded. I understand selling high, but a closer this good is to be treasured if you are in a pennant race.
My take on Street is to keep him through this year and next and go from there. I believe he is still just in arb anyways right? If so, can still be under team control then for this year and next and then the team can either let him walk like Fuentes because their is a plan in place behind him.
But still crazier trades have happened, just would strongly hope they got a phenomenol return because as earlier said, the starting pitching is doing well, but in a pennant race will need the bullpen in the end to close games and also to bail them out from time to time.
Street, cannot go right now, I understand the idea of buy low sell high, Denver is excited about this team again. Trading Street would be throwing in the towel on the team this season. Two games back in the wild card, this team is good enough to win now trading the best arm out of the pen has to be out of the question right now.
Guys,
Let’s not go selling off the future just yet. If the Rox want to continue to contend, this year and in the future, they need to keep Marquis and Street. Marquis because he’s stable and a sinker-ball pitcher (good at Coors, not to mention a good enough athlete to be used as a pinch-runner), and Street because you don’t just give up one of the best closers around (for any reason other than being dead last). Pay ‘em both I say.
That being said, I’m all for trading away some of our depth in the OF for some relief help. Too much inconsistency there.
I see a ton of people referencing a proven 8th inning arm. But who would you want? And what team, with that arm, is going to let that guy go? ESPECIALLY if they’re in the hunt themselves.
No, folks, I think we may be able to get some low pitch number personnel that can work several days in a row by getting in and then getting out, but we’re basically going to have to stick with what we have. At least this year.
rockdart–yes, the sort of reliever good enough to be a setup guy would also be expensive, which is why I think it would take prospects, perhaps in addition to someone like Spilly.
If you’re looking for someone already in that sort of role, you’re likely talking a team that’s out of it, so they’ll likely want prospects. E.g., there were rumors the Pirates were willing to move their closer Matt Capps for the right price.
Or, you’re probably going to have to trade for someone with that sort of ability, but not currently in the role. Two of those guys already have moved in Chris Perez (young ex-Cards closer of the future) and Joel Hanrahan (struggling ex-Nats closer)
I think if the team is only willing to trade true surplus like Murton, Spilly and/or Atkins, then the player they get back will likely be much more of a roll-the-dice type like a Grilli.
There are some “proven veteran” relievers out there to be had, but first their clubs need to throw in the towel. LaTroy Hawkins is no stud, but he’s better than any of our 8th inning options right now. Cla Meredith and Chad Gaudin will likely be heading out of SD. Either one would be a serious upgrade over Fogg or Rincon. Juan Cruz has been crappy in KC but he has a track record; I expect his salary will be too high for us. Cleveland is likely to move a few guys, including Rafael Betancourt. His best days are behind him, but he may benefit from a league change. The Dbacks will also be dealing. Tony Pena is what everyone wants, but they’ll probably hang onto him unless the offer is great; we might have to go dumpster diving for a Matt Herges again (he’s available). The real key here, with Bucky out all year and Corpas a question mark, is to upgrade from Rincon and Daley, letting those guys drop back into the low leverage situations currently reserved by Fogg. Embree’s command has been way off, but he’s throwing as hard as he has in the last 5 years, so we’ve just got to hope for a rebound. And yes, dumping Grilli was a mistake, and a pointless one at that, since there wasn’t anyone (Flores? C’mon) really bursting through the AAA fence at the time we released him. Possibly Adam Eaton could squeeze out a couple dozen decent bullpen innings if the sink is back. Other than that, is there any help on the farm? Not that I can see. So that means some kind of acquisition is essential here.
I doubt that he qualifies as the 8th inning guy that the guys on the blog are looking for, but what is the status of Ryan Speier? Do the guys think that he would be an improvement over any of the guys who are still in our bullpen (Rincon?)
Good question: Speier at least has proven to be tough on righties, so he’d seem more useful than Fogg for sure …
I think Fogg is great in the position of a Long Reliever. He’s a almost a pure groundballer, and when you need someone who is there to munch innings, there is no better pitch type.
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