Rumor roundup: Uggla gone; interest in Francis
The Florida Marlins have traded second baseman Dan Uggla — once a rumored target of the Rockies — to the Atlanta Braves for infielder Omar Infante and left-handed reliever Mike Dunn. Other rumors from Thursday:
— ESPN’s Jerry Crasnick tweets that five teams — the Rockies, Pittsburgh Pirates,, Seattle Mariners, Milwaukee Brewers and Houston Astros — are interested in Jeff Francis.
— According to the Pittsburgh Tribune-Review the Pirates also have reportedly made Jorge De La Rosa their top free agent target.
— The St. Louis Cardinals have re-signed Jake Westbrook.
First off: shocked by how little it took to get Uggla. Infante and Dunn are nothing to sneeze at, but figured it would take a third player at least.
Rockies weren’t interested (take that for what it’s worth; I know a good share of this community wanted the Rockies to be) but another way to read this is the Marlins wanted pieces to win with rather than a prospect haul.
A utility player, albeit a good one, and reliever? We need to try and make some trades with the Marlins front office. How about Eldred and Morales for Josh Johnson?
A year ago I suggested trading Brad Hawpe and Clint Barmes for Dan Uggla. Seeing how little ATL got for Uggla following a career year, I think FLA would have took that in a heart beat last year because Hawpe was projecting as a Type A and Barmes was also coming off a pretty good year.
The Rox OF was stacked so from our perspective Hawpe was expendible.
Instead, Rox hold their cards like they always do and miss the opportunity and now both Hawpe and Barmes are likely gone for nothing.
Man I am so frustrated. If ATL had to trade Martin Prado instead of Infante, I would have said “ok, fair enough, we couldn’t match that” but this trade was a steal. Again, why can’t the Rockies be the snake oil man once in a while?
Is Dan O’Dowd’s email available? I don’t want to scream at him or anything, but I would like a serious answer as to why we 1)were’t interested and 2)if we were interested why we couldn’t beat that low asking price.
I dont understand here…. It also says Conor Jackson could stay in Oakland so does this mean the Rockies will sign ethier Kevin Kouzmanoff or Jermaine Dye? And there is not even a guarentee Kouzmanoff will be non-tendered.
Denver Post says Rockies interested in Josh Willingham as well as Mike Napoli. I hope the Rockies dont have to give up a ton this offseason and it also says Tyler Matzek, Jhoulys Chacin, Christian Friedrich, and Rex Brothers all off limits….
Hope Nolan Arenado, Wilin Rosario, Kyle Parker, and Jordan Pacheco aren’t on the list as well.
Can I have O’dowd’s email too? I would like to thank him for not giving up squat for Uggla. He has power and bats right handed, that’s the only reason people like him. Uggla’s AB’s and defense would be something this board would complain about non-stop if he were on the Rox. Thank you for not pursuing this guy. I don’t know who the answer is at 2nd base, but I’m glad it’s not Uggla.
Not at what we would have to pay him anyways. And Prog, I bet that’s why the Rox didn’t pursue him, he is out of their price range. Rox don’t pay high dollar for players. They will pay for their own top notch talent(Helton, Tulo, Ubaldo) but will not go into others top notch talent. Not after the Neagle-Hampton fiasco. Rox days of spending any money on established major leaguers is over and never to be seen again. It’s about home grown talent and major league vets on the cheap. That’s the way it is and don’t expect anything else.
I do agree too with the Rox holding on to guys too long though. We have now seen it with Atkins, Hawpe and Corpas. Soon to be Barmes as well.
Also, Jake Westbrook off the market. He was part of the “Plan B” list if DLR doesn’t come back. Is “Plan C” in the developmental stages?? Jarrod Washburn may want to pitch this year…
Bummer about Westbrook. So, after Lee and DLR, who is the next best available starting pitcher that the Rockies can target?
Aren’t the Rockies ever going to get off the Hampton-Neagle deal. Yeah, they made two mistakes. Every once in awhile you got trust your gut. DOD still seems more interested in character than in talent. Rockies kept Hawpe and Barmes too long because they were great guys, etc. But we could have gotten something for them.
That being said I’m not a big fan of Uggla because of his lack of D. We need both a right-handed power bat and a slick fielding 2nd baseman. In my opinion the most important defensive position’s are up the middle, catcher, 2nd, short and center. Iannetta is decent, certainly better than Olivo although Olivo threw out a higher percentage. But he let too many balls get by him, some were called passed balls, some wild pitchers but many his fault. Obviously Tulo and Dex are A+ fielders. But if you have a C or below fielding 2nd baseman which is where Uggla lies. And EY also. However EY is young and perhaps has upside.
Did I just understand the Braves GM correctly? Uggla doesn’t even know he’s been traded yet or is it just the Braves unable to contact him?
While it still may seem like it didn’t cost much to get Uggla, the Braves still have to deal with the money he wants if they want to keep him. Eric, if I had to guess, this is probably the biggest reason the Rockies weren’t interested.
Jake Westbrook resigning is no surprise. Even if he didn’t, I don’t think there was much in the way of odds of him coming to Denver. Does anyone believe the Rockies would have gone the 2yrs and $17.5M guarenteed the Cardinals did?
I’m getting the feeling there will be some upset fans going into spring training.
I understood though Uggla was not going to be a Rockie and I knew why.
From a recent article about potential “Plan B” pitchers…
Kuroda – re-signed
Westbrook – re-signed
Vasquez – really?
Maybe the “Dragonslayer” is looking for a new/old home??
Mike, I can understand the money long term, but the Fish took a marginal big league reliever and a light hitting utility man who is going to be a FA in 2012. Surely the Rockies could have parted with similar players for a 1 year rental knowing they’d get 2 picks for him.
Seriously, Omar Infante isn’t worth 2 draft picks all by himself and ATL gets Uggla for 1 year on top of that to put them over the top for Chipper’s final season.
Substitute Franklin Morales for Mike Dunn and Clint Barmes for Omar Infante and the Rox are probably 80% there.
Let’s go after Justin Upton. Another young outfielder and good right-handed power.
While I am not as big of fan of Uggla as Prog is, I have to agree, if all it would take is this “haul” from the Braves, we need to get Marlins on speed dial this offseason. Getting one year of right handed power from 2nd base and perhaps as a Helton back up would have been nice as well as the picks next year if he has a great year and then someone else can overpay for him the next year and we can see if our DanO second base committee is ready in 2012.
But spinning this to the present and 2011, what is prospect Nelson’s power upside like? I like the contact potential of Herrera and Ey’s speed, but long term is there a better solution with Nelson? I saw the replay of the steal of home last night on an FSN highlight deal. Just a thought, might not be the best scenario, but a thought.
Things are just getting kicked off, would be nice to splash and sign DLR for 3 years and 27-30mil and then get our right handed stud somehow someway.
Wasn’t 100% in the get Uggla camp, but at that price I rea;;y would have been on board with acquiring him. Now for my biggest fear, the free agent dominos are not going to fall the Rockies way this off season and here’s why.
Everyone in the country knows that the Rockies want to resign DLR, however that will require at least 2/3 of the total available money to be spent on free agents. So in my mind the real reason the Rockies have passed on Uggla is that they did not want to be eliminated from the DLR sweepsatkes.
However there in lies the problem in that it is going to take several weeks before C Lee signs, and I seriously doubt that DLR will want to sign until after Lee is off the market and the losing teams have had a real chance to bid on him.
So that’s my real fear that many of the viable options like Uggla will be long gone by the time the Rockies lose out in the DLR sweepsatkes. All that money left with no players remaining to spend it on – funny how that worked out isn’t it?
Sorry Eric W. for the confusion I was responding to ProgMatinee.
ProgMatinee, I have to say I do agree with your response to me. You make an excellent point.
“Substitute Franklin Morales for Mike Dunn and Clint Barmes for Omar Infante and the Rox are probably 80% there.”
Give me a break. GM’s have to work in the real world. No one wants Barmes. And if they did, they know he’ll be non-tendered.
The Marlins didn’t get much for Uggla, but let’s not be ridiculous about it.
“Light hitting” infielder–do you use vague terms like that so you don’t have to substantiate anything? Did you know that over the last 3 seasons Infante isn’t light hitting for an infielder, and in fact is slightly better than the overall league avg for non-pitchers? How much would such a “light hitting” 2nd baseman have helped tge Rockies last year?
Granted, the Marlins did make a very odd move…seems money related as it would have been better to have just kept Uggla for the year…save for money.
I think if you look at SF and the championship the team gets to sport, it is clear that the old adage holds: pitching wins championships. I don’t think Dan Uggla would’ve taken us to the top if we lost DLR and Francis. I hope they do everything to sign both those guys. Our team would’ve likely been in the playoffs if not for injuries suffered by Cook, Francis, DLR, and Street during the year. SF proved you don’t need slugging to win it all. Colorado outperformed SF in every offensive category (3rd overall to 8th) and missed the playoffs.
Steve, you’re right. Shockingly low value for Uggla.
Bill: yes, Uggla’s a crappy second baseman. But have you noticed that we also need a first baseman? And a right handed bat? Stick Uggla at 1B and you’ve got a major upgrade right there with — I would imagine — perfectly acceptable defense.
Steve- Are Lance Berkman and Victor Martinez still free agent targets? I know Martinez it was the $ and Berkman he would also have to play OF.
I’m very late to the party here. I was shocked at how little Atlanta gave up. I don’t understand why the Rox were not at least a little bit interested. How can you have no interest in 33 HR and 100 RBI?
Karl, I like Nelson at 2B also over Herrera and EY2.
Please no, no, no to Vasquez and Pavano. Look at Garland instead. At least he has been more consistent than those two roller coasters.
Rich M, you have hit on the fears of all of us. “All that money left with no players remaining to spend it on.” That is the sum of all fears.
I’m still making a push for Troy Glaus (DP says Mora could be moving on) and Kouzmanoff is someone also to look at.
Anyway C Thistle and a number of other people make a good point, pitching is a necessity to winning. DLR has to be a priority above any offense right now.
Reader….the Marlins go from 120 HRs over the last 4 years from Uggla to 15 HRs over 4 years Omar Infante. Yes I consider that “light hitting”. Infante had a good year last year, but his previous 2 or 3 were very pedestrian.
Uggla for one year? Not that interested. Think starting pitching, starting pitching, starting pitching. I see Matt Garza pitch often and if he’s available, and I think he will be since the Rays want to bring in younger arms, you would have yourself a power righthander who’s certainly a #2 or #3 at worst. I’m less inclined to go after Jamie Shields, but he is a proven starter, probably a #3 or #4 for the Rox. Garza’s definitely my choice. I think he would make more of a difference than Uggla would have. Poor defense up the middle loses games, power starters win them.
The Rockies will not sign DLR people. The Rockies have to know this. Other teams are willing to overpay and the Rockies are not ready to do that. I don’t see Francis coming back either. V-Mart isn’t coming here. Berkman doesn’t make sense. But hey, I heard Bartolo Colon wants to pitch next year!
I have a bad feeling we’ll be going into Spring Training not looking so good.
1. 2B (especially if you call Coors Field your home) is not the place to look for answers to ones right-handed power shortage.
2. Kouzmanoff could be intriguing if he can spell Helton.
3. Look for Barmes to be a 2012 starter in Pittsburgh.
4. If they’re smart, both DLR and Frances will resign with the Rockies.
5. I look for the Rockies to make a major trade this off-season.
6. Keep the faith.
Ok, well I was wrong, sort of. I was right in the fact that Benoit would not become a Rockie. I was wrong in thinking the Rays would re-sign him. They didn’t. The Tigers did for 3yrs and about $17.5M
Wayne, I haven’t read the DP but I did see the reference by
Tim Dierkes. So the Rockies have drawn a line in the sand for Jorge. Great. Wonderful. So any team that wants him just has to be willing to go more than 3 yrs and convince Jorge it’s a better deal. Nice.
When it comes to Vasquez, I wouldn’t get too excited. I believe there are contradictory stories about where he will and won’t play. I don’t think the Rockies are high on his list of places to play right now. I guess it could change come Jan. or Feb.
Will be interesting to see how many Rockies Hurdle gets in Pitt. Some players will have a comfort zone with him.
Steve N, I would bet Barmes as a super utility, they already have a decent 2B that I wish we could get. Maybe Francis, I could see Hurdle wanting him. I really can’t see DLR going to Pitt or Baltimore. Someone, I’m sure, will inform him that all the money won’t bring happiness and comfort, especially if the team you are on stinks.
I’m starting to hope we just keep Barmes.
At less than $2.0m per year and a Super Utility role? ok!
Doc, I agree with all of your points. I am interested to see what trades DOD makes this offseason.
On Denver Post.com its saying the Rockies have inquired about Justin Upton… Would be good move for Rockies but be concerning since the Diamondbacks want 4-5 good players for him so the amount the Rockies would have to give up, and the contract.
It also says the Rockies have called Kevin Millwood, and Scott Kazmir. Would be interesting to see how those two will fit at Coors Field…. Another name could be Gavin Floyd…
Steve what is the chance of you seeing any of these guys in a Rockies uniform and I thought they were also targeting Lance Berkman, and Victor Martinez?
I’d rate the chances of V-Mart coming to Colorado this off season at slim to none, and same goes for Berkman.
Upton’s a longshot because of what the D-backs would want to trade him within the division. Don’t see how the Rockies get that done without giving up Chacin and/or Matzek among many others. Kazmir and Millwood fall into the backup to the backup plan column. Floyd’s interesting — not the true No. 2 they need, but a good pitcher. Don’t see Berkman as a Rockies target — he’s not a good fit at this point in his career. Martinez is still out there, but will just depend on what the market does to his price and whether he will be willing to move to first base full time down the road. Rockies won’t pay $15 million for someone who’s just a catcher with Rosario coming along. Of those names Floyd maybe is the most likely to become a Rockie.
I’m sorry, but is there really any indication that Justin Upton is significantly better than Ryan Spilborghs or Seth Smith? They too can hit .275 with 20 HRs if given a full schedule.
If we traded multiple top prospects to get a very typical outfielder yet can’t beat the deal ATL gave up for one of the best offensive 2nd basemen to ever play the game, well I wouldn’t know what to say.
How legit are the Justin Uptin trade talks and what would the Rockies have to give up to land him? If Fowler wasn’t included, that would be a phenomenal defensive outfield with CarGo & Upton. I’d much rather include EY2 than Fowler. Word is the Dbacks are looking for 3-4 Major league players, so dealing some of the pitching depth may be out unless they were interested in Rogers and maybe Friedrich. Is Chacin truly untouchable or is he worth dealing if he nets a talent like Upton?
Kazmir? Really? He’s down 3 mph from his peak days, and he hasn’t shown the ability to make any kind of Frank Tanana-type transformation to crafty veteran lefty innings eater status. Right now he has essentially no value — think Tim Redding last year, or Josh Fogg (someone already mentioned the Dragon Slayer).
Millwood is Josh Fogg c. 2007. Which, with the way this offseason is going, might be the best we can do.
Is Upton better than Spilborghs? Uhh, yeah, he’s better. He had a down year last year and still was a 3-win player. He’s still only 23 years old (Spilly will be 31). I think that’s a pretty good ballplayer, so yes, the price will be high.
I hope the trade talks for Upton are bogus. He’s a good young player, but not what the Rockies need, especially considering how many players they apparently want for him.
Smith and Spilborghs affordably provide good numbers in RF. Trading the world to get 5 HRs more would set us back big time.
The team doesn’t lack production from the OF.
It lacks production from 1B, 2B, 3B and C.
It also lacks pitching. So to even consider trading Chacin when the team hasn’t filled the hole DLR will leave is worrying.
This team also has had a drought from their 1st Rd pitching selections for the past 8 years. So to consider trading Matzek a little over 1 year after selecting him would be brow raising.
Prog, as usual I agree with some of your thoughts. The right handed power bat ideally should come from C, 1B, 2B or 3B. With Uggla gone that pretty much brings us back to VMart and a bunch of overpaid 1B only sluggers on the FA market.
As much as you wanted to bring Uggla to Denver, I want to bring VMart in to see what happens. If you sign him to a reasonable contract, he will still have market value if you need to move him down the line to save dollars.
My last thought is Willingham with the Nationals. If we could trade Spilly and Rogers for Willingham, why not give that a shot? He could replace Spilly in the outfield and spell Helton at 1st base with a power right handed bat.
I can jump on the VMart train with the assumption that he plays half his games at 1B and half at C in 2011 and then progressively plays more and more at 1B after that. I wouldn’t want to block Rosario too long.
Acquiring Justin Upton would be great but the issues would be how much the ROckies owuld have to give up, and the contract…..
I also wrote the last comment and DC Rockie Chacin will be untouchable… If the D’backs ask for Friedrich, Chacin, Matzek, then the deal is not worth it.
2B is a power hitting position? Since when? Your power positions are the corner spots. LF, RF, 3B, and 1B. You’re lucky if you have power at SS, 2B, C, and CF. Actually, you’re lucky if your catcher can even hit. I would like to see Herrera at 2B next year hitting second in the lineup. He reminds me a lot of Placido Polanco. Good contact hitter who doesn’t strike out often. Maybe with him and Dexter at the top of the lineup we can utilize the hit and run a little more next year. At this point I see the Rockies bringing in someone like Wigginton or Mora again and a back end of the rotation veteran starter. DLR is gone and there is no way the Rockies sign V-Mart. You can forget about Upton coming here.
The max I would give for Upton is 3 to 4 players. 1 OF, 1 IF, and 2 decent P. None of the P could be Chacin, Matzek, Friedrich or Brothers.
Something like Seth Smith, Chris Nelson, Esmil Rogers and Greg Reynolds.
I’m sure the D-backs would say no, or would get a better offer elsewhere, but for the Rockies he’s not crucial enough to offer more.
•Towers is determined not to trade Upton within the NL West, according to Jon Heyman of SI.com (on Twitter).
“The max I would give for Upton is 3 to 4 players. 1 OF, 1 IF, and 2 decent P. None of the P could be Chacin, Matzek, Friedrich or Brothers.”
Eric, I don’t think it will even be an issue. For the last couple of days the Upton rumors have been the Red Sox and to a lesser extent the Yankees. The big stir today (by multiple media outlets) seems to be the Red Sox sending Daniel Bard and Papelbon to the Dbacks for Upton.
Those that were worried about the Vasquez and Pavano report by the DP. Not to worry because the Miami media is reporting the same interest by the Marlins. It’s alleged that Pavano wants 3 yr $30+M
Mike, isn’t Bard the successor for Papelbon? I don’t think the Sox would part with both.
I want no part of Upton – how many times has he been benched for lack of effort and poor attitude?
Marc makes a good point about Upton’s ‘tude. He’s not a guy that fits into the personality of the Rox. His contract is too rich for Colorado, especially for a .275 hitter who K’d 152 times in 571 PA, 470 ABs.
Here’s a good reason not to got after him:
2011 23 Arizona Diamondbacks $4,250,000
2012 24 Arizona Diamondbacks $6,750,000
2013 25 Arizona Diamondbacks $9,750,000
2014 26 Arizona Diamondbacks $14,250,000
2015 27 Arizona Diamondbacks $14,500,000
Wrong Upton. You are thinking of his brother with the Rays. I’m pretty sure he has had some lack of hustle benchings over the last 2 years.
If the D’backs are going to move a player, how about we take a look at Drew and move him to 2nd or 3rd. I read somewhere that AZ was accepting offers for Drew also.
Reports in the past few days say the Diamondbacks won’t be trading Drew. Only reason they’re considering Upton is because his age/contract could draw four or five pieces like Mark Teixeira did for the Rangers a couple years ago. A lot of teams would probably be more interested in Drew, but he wouldn’t bring the same return for the Diamondbacks.
Wayne
Respectfully – both Uptons have found themselves sitting down as a result of questionable decisions
Marc, quite possibly true, I just remember the Rays Upton having more incidents