Rockies trade Jimenez to Indians for four players
The Colorado Rockies have traded starting pitcher Ubaldo Jimenez to the Cleveland Indians for four players. The deal is pending a physical Sunday for Jimenez.
The Rockies are set to acquire four prospects, including the Indians’ 2009 first-round picks: right-hander Alex White; first baseman/outfielder Matt McBride, a second-round pick in 2006; right-handed pitcher Joe Gardner, a third-round pick in 2009; and a player to be named later. That player reportedly is the Indians’ 2010 first-round pick, Drew Pomeranz, who signed late after being drafted and cannot be traded until after Aug. 16.
Jimenez made his scheduled start Saturday against the San Diego Padres and allowed four runs on two hits and four walks in an awkward first inning. After he returned the Rockies dugout he received hugs from his teammates and left the dugout. Esmil Rogers warmed up throughout the first inning.
Pomeranz, the fifth overall pick in the 2010 draft, is 3-3 with a 1.98 ERA in 18 starts between high Class A Kinston and Double-A Akron and is the key to the deal. He was ranked the 14th-best prospect in baseball in Baseball America’s midseason top 50.
White, the 15th overall pick in the 2009 draft,was part of the Indians’ rotation in late April and early may, going 1-0 with a 3.60 ERA in three starts. He is also 1-0 with a 1.90 ERA in four starts at Triple-A Columbus and has missed much of the season with a sprained ligament in his right middle finger. He was scheduled to make a rehab appearance this weekend before being scratched in anticipation of the trade.
McBride, 26, is hitting .297 with 14 home runs and 53 RBI at Double-A. He also hit .156 in 12 games at Triple-A.
Gardner was rated the ninth-best prospect in the Indians’ system by Baseball America before the season. He is 7-8 with a 4.99 ERA at Double-A this season.
It will be interesting to see if UJ is scratched tonight. Can’t comment on the Indians’ players reported to be in play, but I will say that I’m getting pretty tired of the Rox trotting out a different second baseman every other week…
Ubaldo scratched. Esmil to start. I think its silly to trade an ace. Hopefully he will benefit from being out of Denver.
I think this deal is done if this is what is being reported. Sad. My favorite player is being traded. Sad day. But at least he’s going to a team that I like (I hate the Yankees and the Red Sox). Nice to see Cleveland getting a great pitcher for a change instead of losing one (Lee, Sabathia).
But, if UJ doesn’t pitch then we can’t prove to the Yankees that everything is right with him. Did DOD blink??
Sad to see him go, glad it is to my other favorite team. I don’t know the players coming in return, but the positions sound right in that we are getting pitching and a 1B.
Will be interesting to see if the truth ever comes out, but I will maintain where there is smoke there is fire in that the Rockies were not willing to extend Ubaldo. I would not be surprised if the Indians almost immediately sign him to a contract extension and if they do not, flip him at the end of the season.
Does anyone know how close these guys are to making it to the big leagues? Where do they rank prospect wise?
I think it is good for Ubaldo, who seems like a great guy.
Pomeranz could probably pitch in majors now, but may stay in minors until September. Would expect him up this year.
White would have been part of the Indians staff this year by now if not for finger injury. Probably also September. Both could/should be part of Rockies rotation next season and both have No. 1 or 2 starter potential.
Did we even get a guy that can contribute this year????
BA ranked Pomeranz the 14th best prospect in baseball in midseason rankings. He was ranked 61st preseason.
White ranked 47th by BA in preseason.
Everything makes deal seem close, but not done. Would guess that it’s a hangup on third player. Kipnis much more attractive piece than McBride.
If deal happens, Rockies rotation in 2012 could look like this: Chacin, Pomeranz, Nicasio, White, Hammel. Young but very, very good. That’s four guys with ace potential. Key word, of course, is potential.
Our front of the rotation guy for a fifth year first baseman/outfielder who’s still at AA, a (young) starting pitcher who is just getting to AA, and another young pitcher who has advanced to AAA, but has been injured. Again, I don’t know much about the Cleveland players involved, but this proposed trade seems just a bit different from the hard-line demands that the front office was reportedly making to the pinstriped monsters.
Don’t forget DLR might be back mid-season.
in the pregame report alana almost seems like she is gonna cry, for what we can see right now looks like if he was already traded
Two pitchers involved in deal would immediately be two best pitching prospects in Rockies system. Pomeranz would have ranked ahead of Matzek even before his meltdown. White would have been next. These are BIG time prospects.
ubaldo is the starter tonight, we havent seen the last of this story yet
Jimenez is in the starting lineup…
Ubaldo headed to the mound! Maybe Rox are trying to get a better deal?
God, I hope I am wrong, but the Rockies luck is such that 1)Ubaldo gets hurt or 2)gets shelled tonight.
My guess (and hope) is that Rockies are taking hard line about third player. If Rockies could get Jason Kipnis as part of the deal it would be a huge haul.
ESPN Boston’s Gordon Edes is reporting that Red Sox haven’t given up on Jimenez, who is still warming up for Rockies. Looks like he’s going to start.
Who is going to blink first, 7 minutes to first pitch and 19.5 hours to deadline.
CRAZY!!! Would love to see a few aces and a potential cleanup hitter.
im going crazy trying to read the 400+ articles that came out in the last hour with the tag ubaldo jimenez
At this point, I would say trade is maybe 60-40 going to happen. Seemed really close about an hour ago, but if it was a matter of formalities, Jimenez would not be starting tonight. If he takes the mound, it means deal that was close has hit a snag.
One interesting point: Pomeranz may not yet be able to traded. Players can’t be traded until at least a year after they’ve signed and he was a late signee by Indians after 2010 draft.
Trying to think long term, hope he doesn’t start. Too much risk if you are seriously this close on multiple teams. Also hope he goes to Cleveland, because IMO he would get shelled in Boston with that short right field.
While I hate to see Ubaldo go, this is one heck of a great deal, if we get both their past two #1s (remember, the Indians have been good for past three years so they were higher picks), and add another good young player (I am hoping that Kipnis). One get this done so they can work on dealing some other guys. One more out before U goes out to pitch.
Lets see if Boston can in anyway match that most excellent deal.
This is crazy and kinda disrespectful to Ubaldo…warming up Esmil?? Should have just pulled him from the start.
rogers is warming up looks like a done deal
Bye Ubaldo, we’ll miss you!
its the end of the 3 O’s
Pomeranz and White are two plus-prospects but no Kipnis in the deal makes this a questionable move on the surface. Why are the Rockies so eager to trade Ubaldo when they can let him reestablish his value next season.
This is a team with some serious holes but there is hitting coming from the minors – Wheeler for one and deeper, in time, Rosario, Parker, Dickerson, Matthes, Arenado.
If they must trade Ubaldo, Pomeranz and White are two solid building blocks, if healthy and the real deal. Kipnis should be included too as a third piece and one the Rockies need – a second baseman.
But maybe this is to get the Yankees and Red Sox nervous. And remember if Ubaldo struggles tonight, maybe all this is just talk.
Esmil Rogers is warming up because the deal is done? They will actually pull Ubaldo during the game and have him shake hands? Unbelievable.
I think DOD has handled this poorly, no matter the haul they get.
Why in gods name is he pitching right now? This is garbage. Not necessarily the trade but what the hell is this? Just sit him. Worst case he doesn’t get traded he starts tomorrow
The upper management of this team is utterly incompetent.
And he gets shelled because of the distraction. This from an organization that takes pride in how it treats people? Bush league.
Have to say I predicted bad news from this start. Am I smarter than O’Dowd or Tracy. I saw this as plain as day that starting him would be a bad idea. What a calamity!! DAMN.
This is awful. There was no reason to start Ubaldo if a trade were an hour away…its the same monkeys in upper management that haven’t fired Jim Tracy yet. As long as they are in charge–the Rox aren’t going anywhere.
Trade Ubaldo tonight…then clean the gosh damn house of these idiots. Tracy, Apodaca, and O’Dowd. CAN THEM ALL FOR THIS MESS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I’ve been disappointed in the performance on the field of this team but I’ve never been embarrassed by it until now. Prog, I second the motion to clean the house.
I agree Prog!
If Tracy is still manager next season, Im not renewing my season tickets.
With you Thistle! That was BS!
Seems like they started him to get a 4th player? Shouldn’t do that at the expense of a good guy.
Thanks for the great memories. I salute you Ubaldo and I hope you win the Cy Young award over in the AL.
Just texted toyota talk bashing this team. Join me
Four players Pomeranz, who can’t be announced until mid August, Alex White, Matt McBride, Joe Gardner acording to Troy Renck
What was the point of starting Jimenez? That was laughable.
Wow this was just as stupid as Hunter Pence being pulled out last night in the 5th inning… What in the world was Tracy, Apodaca thinking letting him start?? That inning was probably the longest in his life!
I think that some of the management of this team needs a colonoscopy. I mean really they need to know what the heck they have up there.
Poorly handled. Yes as TR says on twitter, Ubaldo paid to be a pro and pitch, but the whole warming of Esmil in top of the 1st, was to say the least complete chaos. Played poker and might get 4 players now but wow, that was something we have not seen before.
Calling it a twitter trade and old school guys not knowing how to then handle in the least bit. Hence, my argument that starting with JT and DanO they need to get colonoscopies.
Best wishes to Ubaldo. Hope Major League “4″ for them is like the original now for the Indians and not like the other sequels.
Sickels at minorleagueball describes Pomeranz as a front-end lefty starter. Not quite sure I’m seeing ace stuff from the K rates, but no doubt an excellent prospect. White sounds more like a young Aaron Cook/power sinker guy, maybe with a bit more swing-and-miss stuff (splitter) that could give him more upside than Cook. McBride looks like a throw-in only. If I’m correct, he failed as a catcher and is now a 1B/corner OF only who doesn’t look like he’ll hit enough to make it.
Initial impression: much better than the other deals that were kicked around because you may get #2 and #3 starters out of it. But I would’ve liked to have seen one sure-fire, can’t-miss player (a position guy given how pitchers are almost never sure things), and we didn’t get that.
Just read the Rockies signed Jorge Cantu.
Cantu signing came a year too late.
i dont really care about cantu….. really ubaldo is gone who cares if we signed a free agent or if we win or loose, tonight we lost our best pitcher…..
Check out White’s AAA stats (just 4 starts): very impressive. I’m feeling a bit better already.
Steve where do the Rockies go from here? Do you think this is a good trade… Just upset about seeing Ubaldo go and how Rockies handled this at beginning of game.
Rockies got a big return. McBride and Gardner are so-so prospects, guys who could help on the periphery but aren’t going to change the future of the franchise. Pomeranz and White with Chacin and Nicasio could be the best rotation in the NL West in two years. Will still be a pretty good one next year, especially when De La Rosa comes back. Loss of Ubaldo is very, very disappointing and wouldn’t have been necessary if Rockies’ had drafted worth a damn in 2006 and 2007. It would be easier to accept if Rockies had picked up a hitter to fill big gaps at either No. 1 and 5 in lineup, but it’s still a huge return. I’d argue, though, that Chacin has been the Rockies’ best pitcher this year and will be comparable if not better in the long run.
I don’t know what to think of the deal cuz I hate whiffing on the prospects. Bot on the other hand we weren’t going to get better staying status quo.
One thing worth noting: response among Indians fans thus far has been pretty negative toward the deal. Rockies are being perceived from the outside as having robbed Cleveland.
Steve who would you consider the centerpiece in this trade for the Rockies? It sounds like Pomeranz is a stud
IMO half of that perception can be attributed to the fact that O’Dowd usually gives away players for free.
Not sure what the Rockies do next. Personally, would love to see them turn around now and become players for Michael Bourn, but doubt it’s going to happen. I do not expect this to be the last deal Rockies are involved with before the end of the weekend.
This was the right time to trade Ubaldo because the other team get 2.5 years of him before FA. That extra time brought back more talent. In this day and age with the way teams protect their prospects, especially pitching prospects. Did I want U to stay? Yes, of course, have loved his being here and think he is a class guy. But you can tell that the teams that were really in on this deal didnt hold the first few months of the season against him, so it is doubtful we would have gotten more in the off-season unless he went all Roy Halliday. In fact, this deal looks better than what the Blue Jays got from the Phils (Drabeck, the main guy in the deal, is really thought of as a #3 most likely). They got a lefty starter with #1-2 stuff (Agbayani, I think his stuff is better than the K splits show). They got another guy in White who was a #1 in 2009 and would have been in the show already were not for an injury and has been fantastic since signing. Honestly, I cannot believe the Indians traded their #1 and #2 pitching prospect for Ubaldo. Whatever else their other two players are (one is a pitcher, the other will be a hitter, though it does not look like we will get their 2B guy), they are bonus as far as I am concerned. As Steve pointed out, even assuming DLR cannot start the season with the big club next year, that starting five he listed is better than the one they had this year in total quality.
Now lets see what we can do with our other pieces to fill those other holes.
You have got to be &^#*@* kidding me. Were they really so desperate to get rid of Ubaldo that they would give him up for two unproven pitchers, the better of which depends on his curveball as an out pitch? If you were going to trade Jimenez you at least needed to get the 5 hitter of the future.
You HAVE to get a hitter in this deal. Two “Maybe” stud pitchers and a couple fillers does not equal one current proven stud pitcher signed cheaply through 2014. So I don’t believe the hype, and all we can do now is hope for the best.
Hopefully this deal works out well for Ubaldo and gets him a nice contract. Getting out of Denver will only help him and I think there is a silver lining for him, although he is probably taking it pretty hard. Colorado is bad news for pitchers—hopefully he got out in time.
Pomeranz is the centerpiece. Arguably could be better pitcher than Jimenez in relative short term, which is why Indians fans aren’t pleased with it. Left-handed pitchers aren’t easy to come by and he’s a good one. One thing I’ve been wondering about over the past few days when this has been rumored is that if the Rockies didn’t trade Jimenez, would we be grouping him with Hawpe and Atkins two years from now, a player the Rockies should have traded at the peak of his value rather than waiting until that value had diminished significantly? I don’t know, but it’s a bold move. The difference, obviously, is that with Atkins and Hawpe you had obvious replacements waiting when the Rockies elected to keep them. Rockies don’t have a Jimenez, yet, but Pomeranz and White are good bets to get there soon. Still wish the Rockies had found a hitter to get excited about in the deal.
yeah, i think Yonder Alonso would have been great in Colorado.
Well, I was an Indians fan before the Rockies came into existence, I hope this turns out to be a win-win, but I have my doubts. How do you fail to get a legit hitting prospect in this deal?
Indians maybe motivated by team improving itself in short term wins on walk off.
Take notes for next year Mr. O’Dowd. Teams step it up when they see a GM try to improve.
Thing about Pomeranz is preseason rankings had him a bit lower because he signed late and there wasn’t much of a read on him. Since he started pro ball this year, has soared up prospect rankings. Can’t forget, though, White is a very serious prospect, too. Not the next Aaron Cook. Better fastball, better secondary stuff.
Great point Steve about trading guys at their peak which DOD had not done in past. I love Ubaldo as much as anyone, but he has been a #2 or even 3 except for first three months of last year. DLR and Chacin are both as good. I am disappointed they did not get a bat to play 2B or 3B, but overall this is a good trade
Steve, you put your finger on why this was a weird deal. The Indians take a big risk on Jimenez — giving up two key elements of their very nice pitching rotation c. 2013 — without anything other than a puncher’s chance at making the playoffs and then winning a round or two. Seems to me they should’ve stuck to the slow and steady approach. If I were an Indians fan, this would say to me that management got impatient for no good reason and blew their chance to build a very good, salary-efficient club that could compete (Twins-style) for half a decade.
Meanwhile, from our perspective it’s confusing. You’ve got Tulo and CarGo in their primes, Ubaldo seemingly still in his, although this year has certainly given cause for concern. If the Rox management thinks they know something about Ubaldo (injury risk!) that everyone else can only guess about, then it may be justifiable. But it’s still odd given that this club was built to compete now, and now we’re looking at competing two years from now.
If I had to put it in one sentence, I would say it’s this: “Let’s wait till the Giants rotation breaks down (c. 2013), and then we’ll be ready to pounce.”
Rockies didn’t get the hitter, but the addition of two bigtime prospects does give the Rockies more depth to use prospects to make other moves. Thinking of someone like Friedrich, who is still highly regarded but has less of a clear path to the Rockies now.
Steve, I disagree on you Cook comment. Aaron Cook was a damn good prospect. 92-95 mph heavy sinker (as they say about White), and guess what? He could strike out guys with that stuff at the minor league level. It just didn’t translate into strikeout stuff at the big league level, which left him as a very good sinkerballer who never really qualified as an ace. Now if White has truly developed — truly has command — over secondary swing-and-miss pitches, he may be better than Cook. But we always tend to overrate prospects.
Nelson playing well tonight.
If, the Rockies had not signed Tulo and Cargo in the offseason, my reaction to this deal would be very different because I would seriously question the Rockies’ commitment to winning. I still have my questions about the deal, but it is more to deal with the return rather than the Rockies’ motivation. What frustration I feel has to do with the Rockies’ terrible player development and drafting from 2006-08. Someone in the organization needs to pay for that failure.
Hate having to deal him, very risky. But, sounds like a good haul. I am confused tho. dOD said he would only trade to make team better now and fill multiple holes. This doesnt do that at all. The more I read about Pomeranz and White, the more I like, but we didnt get a 2b, 3b or cf. We really only got p’s. Strange. Also, Steve, how far are these 2 pitchers away? Will we see them this year? Or are they mid season next year with first real impact in 2013?
Its exciting to get pitching prospects ranked this highly, but still scary. If the 2 turn into a legit 1/2 combi with Chacin and Nicasio, we have a nasty rotation. If they dont, we just set this team back years. Very risky gamble. I hope they arent done. Cant go into full rebuild, but a rebuild on the fly is possible. Would love to see us go get a BJ Upton or David Wright to start the quick makeover. Need to deal Street, let Brothers start closing now. Also, trade Giambi, Spilly, Ianneta and Wigs. Get a couple more big league ready guys and 2012 could be great.
Making a move like this only works next year if you change the problem areas fast. Gotta bring up Rosario, let him catch rest of year. Let Brothers close now. Trade Smith and let Wheeler get acclimated to the bigs. Get Pacheco up here and let him play 3b everyday. It will be a brutal rest of season, but that 2 months experience would be invaluable to the kids. Trade at least a few of the guys I mentioned and go after Wright. Or make a
Play for Shields and Upton. Love to get the kids in this year and flourish next.
In a perfect world, the 2012 lineup
1. Wheeler cf
2. BJ Upton RF
3. Cargo LF
4. Tulo SS
5. Helton 1b
6. David Wright 3b
7. Wilin Rosario C
8. Ellis 2b
Pitching Rotation
Pometanze
Chacin
Nicasio
White
DLR
So long Jiminez. It was great while it lasted. Wish you nothing but the best of luck in Cleveland.
I was an Indians fan before the Rox existed, and am almost tempted to switch back. I’m hugely disappointed with the return, and won’t be attending any more games this year.
I agree Steve Poor drafting and underachieving put us in this position, but I am happier with this deal than the rumored deals with other teams (except Yankees, would love to have gotten Banuelos, and Bettances instead) but now we can hopefully trade other players for bats to plug in for the future, and now our Farm System will go from 9th preseason to maybe top 5.
Man, I am so sad someone pinch me please………………
As long as it is not DOD I would tell him don’t touch me……..as many husbands may recall their wife telling them after a bad night of drinking……
Completely unrelated to the pros and cons of the trade, here’s a point of trivia. Drew Pomeranz’s older brother, Stu, 26, is a RHP who closed for Double-A Tulsa in 2010. He went 1-6, 3.67 with 18 saves in 51 games after signing with the Rockies organization late in spring training that year.
A little context:
Jeff Francis, Age 22, Hi A ball (Cal League, a hitter’s league)
3.47 ERA, 8.6 K/9, 2.5 BB/9, 0.4 HR/9
Drew Pomeranz, Age 22, Hi A ball (Carolina league, a pitcher’s league)
1.87 ERA, 11.1 K/0, 3.7 BB/9, 0.2 HR/9
This is a really good prospect. About all you can pick on is the walk rate, and even that’s not bad for a 22 year old. The other component stats show ace-type ability.
Aaron Cook, Age 22, Hi A ball (Carolina league)
3.08 ERA, 7.1 K/9, 2.2 BB/9, 0.2 HR/9
Alex White, Age 21 (younger), Hi A ball (Carolina league)
2.86 ERA, 8.4 K/9, 3.9 BB/9, 0.8 HR/9
He then got promoted to AA, and put up:
2.28 ERA, 6.4 K/9 (not a good drop-off), 2.3 BB/9, 0.7 HR/9
And then this year, age 22, AAA (just 4 starts):
1.90 ERA, 10.6 K/9 (wow … is that a new splitter?), 1.9 BB/9, 0.4 HR/9
So White is on the right track, but he’s a very difficult read given how little he’s pitched. Steve, I’m ready to say that Aaron Cook is kind of a baseline for him, but that he has shown more upside potential.
I hope Drew Drew does not have the same personality as Stu… Stu was jerk. I got to spend alot of time around him last year, not a fan of Stu… Hopefully Drew is more laid back and doesn’t think he is god’s gift to baseball
Good Luck Ubaldo, thanks for the insight! (That’s why I love blogs like this … I would have absolutely no reaction to the name “Stu Pomeranz” before tonight. Now I’ll automatically think “jerk” when I hear that name.)
I love this team but I can say today that I hate their front office……I am just in shock so I aploogize if I offend anyone…..but it looks to me like we are making a run at the 2015 NL West, no bat, no ML ready starter today? Let’s go 2014-15……? Colorado sports has fallen off…..badly!!!!!
Ya he is a pain in the @$$ he is probably the reason alot of Rosario got a bad rap as a game caller. Stu was the kind of guy that would throw what ever pitch he wanted and tried to big league all the prospects because he was jealous… even though he never had a chance at a big league career
Rockies are big on getting certain personality types and I am sure they did their homework
I thought Ubaldo’s interview was interesting. Very nice guy, response about being upset with lack of contract did not remove my preconceptions. He more or less said that he remained a professional despite being upset. I am sure he was absolutely as professional as possible, but has anyone ever been around a coworker who is passed on a promotion that he or she honestly deserved…its not a comfortable situation.
Hey, I’ve got an idea, lets embark on a long rebuilding plan while Tulowitzki and CarGo are in their primes!
Prog not sure if UJ deserved the huge promo or not?(I personaly think yes!), but not sure if the long term contract would of equalled a better record for the team. I guess we won’t know for a couple years whether this was a good deal but today it hurts, …..but who cares what I think. I say this begrudingly go rox?……2013!!!
I wouldn’t give up on the Rockies in 2012, at least not until it’s actually 2012. Part of the reason the Rockies did this was specifically not to wait until 2013 or ’14. Being competitive on a budget means a constant stream of prospects, and the bad drafts in 2006 and 2007 are really hurting the Rockies.
White almost certainly will be part of the Rockies’ rotation on Opening Day next season if not sooner and Pomeranz won’t be far behind. Neither one will likely be as good as Ubaldo would have been on Day one, but the depth is crucial. It also frees up the Rockies to maybe use other players in trades to shore up other weak spots.
Pitchers now in the organization – Chacin, DLR, Nicasio, Cook and Hammel (both likely gone at the end of the season), Pomeranz, White, Houston, Friedrich, Bettis, Cabrera, Gagnon.
The Rockies must feel some of those many and very nice bats in the farm system (Wheeler) are almost ready.
I guess I am in the minority, but I just don’t think Ubaldo is the superstar many posters seem to think he is. I like him a lot, but I just don’t see someone who is so great he is untradeable. I get the contract being team friendly and him being a great guy. But his pitching stats don’t seem to support an “ace”.
I’ve updated the post above with the Rockies officially announcing the deal, which is complete pending a physical for Jimnez. One thing I admit that I missed: White was part of the Indians rotation earlier this before his finger injury. The injury is similar to the one De La Rosa suffered last year (the finger injury, not the much-worse elbow injury this year). I knew he was close to making the rotation in spring training, but I missed that they actually called him up.
The more I read about Pomeranz and White the less I like this trade. White seems to be an injury waiting to happen who may end up in the bullpen, and Pomeranz depends heavily on a curveball that may or may not break at altitude. There also seems to be quite a bit of doubt as to whether or not he will be able to improve his command because of an awkward delivery.
This is a joke. Just like the Rockies.
Baseball America breaks down the prospects here.
The only way this deal works (in my mind) is if Ubaldo turns out to be less of a pitcher than I think he is. If he is an elite pitcher for years, we lose, unless both Pomeranz and White are superstars — highly unlikely. If one turns out to be a #1 and the other an ok starter, it would still be a mistake if Ubaldo develops into the Cliff Lee I believe him to be. I don’t see anyone pitching a no hitter again for the Rockies for the next decade. I hope I’m wrong.
Love the trade. It positions the team to be much better for the future. Let’s face it, we weren’t going anywhere this year or next year with the same underperforming players. White and Pomeranz are going to be studs. Hopefully the Rox aren’t done selling yet. And hopefully we get a good look at Rosario and Wheeler in September.
Robb, I see where you are standing, but I think that Rockies fans may not see another pitcher with the tools Ubaldo possesed for the next few years. We have never had a legitmate number 1 in our franchise regardless of what the big fish thought he was. Now we need a streak stopper, a number 1 who can carry the load, and I am not sure that any of these prospects equals that. We didn’t get a “big leaguer” in return that has proven anything. What this franchise is telling us that is we don’t think we can compete in 2012, the team we assembled in 2011 was inadequate, and unless our prospects do anything next year we are shooting for 2013 when these prospects could be considered legitamate big leaguers. I reiterate that I love this squad, but have definate questions as to where this front office is leading this franchise. Regardless of what we think, the orginazation is telling us this team is dead in 2011, 2nd or 3rd place team next year, so why should we reward them with the faith of buying tickets for the rest of the season or the following year. We are sick of 2nd place baseball, we want at bear minimum is a team that can actually compete for a division title through and until the final week of the season.
Unlike our anonymous poster a few comments above, the more I read about Pomeranz and White the more I like the trade. No way I would’ve made this trade during the offseason. But the drop in Ubaldo’s velocity is real — probably not highly abnormal as we thought back in April when he was in the high 80s, but still at least a couple mph below where he was last year — and there’s reason to believe that he’s already hitting his decline phase. So I’m o.k. with it. Not thrilled with it — Pomeranz doesn’t look like a Scott Kazmir when the Mets gave him up for Victor Zambrano — but teams don’t give up prospects so easily anymore. The unspoken thing here is that the Rox get some salary room to work with next year too, about 8 million bucks worth. If they can move Street (because lets face it, Brothers is already better right now) and Wiggy, they’ll have freed up 20 million bucks next year.
Read JAYSON STARK on Ubaldo. Great article.
http://espn.go.com/mlb/story/_/id/6818623/mlb-cleveland-indians-take-chance-ubaldo-jimenez
Agbayani, good point about the drop in velo. I think it is closer to 4-5 mph from last year as he was 97-98 consistently. Other than pre-ASG in 2010 he has been a solid, but not great pitcher. I really think he has an injury brewing and hope he gets through his physical tomorrow. Is it possible Rockies now trade one of Rogers/Freidrich/White/Matzek for big bat? Rogers was good tonight.
Good trade on both sides in my opinion. Jimenez broke his off-season routine this Spring, and we saw the effects of his lack of arm strength in April and May. Since then, we have seen the same Ubaldo from last year. Look, I’m a Rockies fan, and I’ll tell you why I think Ubaldo will do really well in Cleveland. Think about all of his epic road starts like the no hitter in ATL. What was one of the common denominators that Colorado lacks? Heat and humidity – just like the Dominican Republic where he grew up pitching. You wonder why he has such crazy home/road splits? His ball has twice the movement it has anywhere the air grips better than Colorado, which is anywhere….
Secondly, Ubaldo doesn’t have a short memory like most good aces. He carries the weight of a poor performance into his next start. I’m glad he went to Cleveland, because I’m pretty sure he would have cracked in either Boston or New York. He’s not that CC type of pitcher who can just let it slide, but that also makes him a great teammate. He cares too much to be an ace in a big market.
What is worrisome with Jimenez this year is his command. His delivery has 2 hitches in it that can make him erratic. If he’s locked in, he’s one of the best. When he’s not, well you know what that looks like. Because of his April and May, Jimenez will not break routine this off-season and will continue throughout winter ball, which should help him next season.
Although I’m sad to see him go, I think the Rox had to sober up about this season, and admit that a lot of players underperformed and they’re not as deep as they thought they were. Because of this, this trade makes a lot of sense. The Rox will hopefully have 2 top of the rotation guys at the beginning of next season in Pomeranz and White, who both look nasty. White deals mid to upper 90′s with a hard breaking ball, and Pomeranz is a big lefty with sick stuff. Both top 10 draft picks by the Tribe. Tough to say no if you’re the Rox with a weak rotation and a lost season.
Wow what a nite. I tried to get connect but the ole Blackberry couldn’t do it. We knew something weird was happening when we saw Rogers warming up. I tried sending an sms to the booth but they don’t respond. Finally spoke to Denver and confirmed the bad news. I was pretty upset and driven by emotion I must have texted the both 5 or 6 times. SD media says it probably isn’t over for either team. In fact the SD fans confirmed alleged reports that Ludick is going with Ubaldo
Never got on the Friedrich bandwagon. I wonder if he will be packaged for a hitter?
Have the Rockies thrown in the towel Steve? I’m not so sure. They have made up a couple of games
Read elsewhre that Alex white and Joe Gardner are ground ball machines. That would explain why Gardner was a throw in.
Steve & Jack,
Where would these 4 new guys coming from Cleveland rank within the Rox top 30 prospect list?
Also, it doesn’t look like any of them need to be added immediately to the Rox 40-man roster, is that correct? I believe the only one that may have to be added soon is White who is currently on the 60-day DL. Please clarify. Thanks.
Cisco Kid,
The Rockies will not need to make any corresponding moves. The Rockies currently have 39 occupied spots on the roster (after the removal of Stults), which will become 38 (after the removal of Jimenez). White will be activated from the 60 Day DL before the trade, and may be put right back (on the 15 Day DL) after being acquired. He and Jimenez effectively swap spots, and we’re back to 39. Gardner and McBride are on MiLB contracts, and so will Pomeranz when he arrives in 2 weeks.
DOD is a dog!! Be classy man don’t send him out there when you know you are going trade him,…..I lost a lot of respect for DOD and the organization last night regardless of what I think of the trade. Ubaldo deserved better, and so did we. DOD next time you are in Cleveland you probably won’t have to buy dinner, but considering that you worked for the Tribe for 11 years I doubt that should be a problem.
Sad,because I thought the “Chief”is a great kid and role model.Happy,because he wasn’t sent to the meatgrinders of the snob writers and fans in the beast coast.Cleveland a working man’s town and U’s smile should win the fans over in a hurry.These kids could be “Daffy”and “Dizzy”Dean,but it wouldn’t matter if we don’t get a bat to hit in the 5 hole.Offense must play like tonight for next season to have promise.Thanks Ubaldo for great memories!
I just watched Tim Kirkian. The more reports I hear the more I wonder.
1) while we may have received 4 players in the deal the national talking heads are only talking about 2
2) Tim alleged Rockies have said both pitchers will be in the rotation next season and in fact this Sept. If tey are tat close and that good what was Cleveland thinking
3) So we get 2 starts and? A couple of hit or miss? Where is the hitter everyone keeps saying we need?
4) What a joke to make ubaldo start. Why? And please spare me with this well it wasn’t a done deal so he had to start. BS. It is being alleged Jim Tracy knew it was most likely done even though he didn’t have “official” confirmation. If he didn’t think it would happen then why warm up Rogers? I can’t remember for sure but I think Rogers was warming up before 1st pitch
5) It was also alleged the Rockies are not done and to expect more to follow today
Wish I could have heard the broadcast. I know the Rockies fans that we spoke with were sad/mad/and pretty much using their cells like we were. I was really hoping Alanna would walk by
I gotta say I am dissapointed they didn’t get another prospect that projected to be a cleanup hitter.
Reading the articles really made me feel bad for the U. He seems a little to fragile mentally to be an ace of a staff. Hope he does well is Cleveland, but I am glad the dealt him.
Meanwhile, the ROCKIES ARE STREAKING!!! I predict a SUNDAY victory today!!!
An interesting thing I have read during all of this was that the Rockies would not allow the Yankees to do a physical on Ubaldo before completing a trade so Yankees bailed. Indians are obviously doing one but there is question as to how in-depth it will be. With this rumor, which I don’t really doubt is true, and the corresponding drop in velocity I mentioned earlier, I am thinking more favorably of this deal as Ubaldo may have something brewing in his arm. On another topic, Rockies have an abundance of High A and AA pitchers who are projecting to be middle to upper end starters. Would they trade 1 or 2 of them for a big bat that they could control for a few years? Would they dare make another run at Michael Young during the offseason? David Wright? As far as today’s trades, I think Wiggy will go somewhere for a B level prospect. Iannetta is gone for a decent prospect and they will recall Rosario. Alonzo is okay for now, but not longterm. If they could, I think they would trade Street, eat some of his salary, and get a very solid prospect back. I would hang onto Raffy and Lindstrom as I think they have the tools ie, mid-90′s FB needed to perform at Coors Field. Street has done a good job, but with smoke and mirrors in my mind.
Two things that bother me. Renck (and others?) say that the Rockies first brought up the trade rumors to motivate Ubaldo. Crazy. Ubaldo was pitching extremely well before the rumors. It was after the rumors became all consuming that he pitcher poorly. The other is that by running Ubaldo out last night makes the idea that the Rockies are a class organization and always treat their players with respect a joke. Tracy did not have to run him out there.
It’s funny that people are saying that one of the reasons why Ubaldo has such a poor start this year is that he didn’t pitch winter ball. You usually here teams say that they don’t want their Latin pitchers to pitch winter ball because it tires them out late in the season (2010 for Ubaldo for instance). Personally I think he had his poor start because of the injury.
Cleveland maybe the perfect place for him. Hot and humid in the summer. He won’t have the pressure of playing in NY or Boston. We’ll see. He’s a class act and perhaps thats his main problem, too nice of a guy. He needs to get mad and throw inside more often.
We’ll see if this trade works out. I don’t like it but confess I know little about Pomerancz or White. We’ll see. But can we be any worse? We’re closer to last, then 1st. And as the Giants have shown, it’s pitching that wins.
Where these guys would rank among Rockies top 30:
A lot has changed in the Rockies rankings because of Matzek’s terrible year, so this would be the top 5 right now: Pomeranz, White, Rosario, Arenado and probably Wheeler. Matzek would be sixth or seventh based on potential with Kyle Parker in the other spot. You could reasonably rank Bettis above Matzek at this point, but I’m optimistic (perhaps foolishly so) after Matzek’s past couple starts. Frierich and Tyler Anderson (assuming he signs) would be very close, too, as would Rosell Herrera, who probably jumps up from No. 12 to the top 10 next year.
Gardner, the third pitcher thrown into the deal would probably rank in the 13-15 range. He’d be below Friedrich, Bettis, Tago and probably 2011 first-rounder Tyler Anderson, who hasn’t yet signed, but ahead of guys like Albert Campos and Rob Scahill (I’m not including Nicasio and Brothers in rankings any longer). I called Gardner a so-so prospect last night, but he’s better than that. Not a frontline starting prospect, but a solid middle- or back-of-the-rotation guy. He’s a 2009 third-rounder who has already reached Double-A, which means he’s moving faster than Rockies 2008 first-rounder Friedrich. Ceiling isn’t as high as Friedrich’s, but a solid prospect.
McBride wouldn’t rank in Top 30. Has a shot to be a bench guy.
Steve, forgot to mention Cabrera in that post as well.
All in all, folks, pitching wins championships. Start adding up at each level, MLB (Chacin, Nicasio, Rogers), AA (Friedrich), A (Bettis, Matzek, Cabrera, Tago), trade/draft (Anderson, Pomeranz, White)… people thats a pretty good group with some high end potential as well. With pitching prospects, its a matter of which ones will succeed/stay healthy.
If the top 10 is as Steve said, and is Pomeranz, White, Rosario, Arenado, Wheeler, Matzek, Parker, Bettis, Anderson, Herrera…
Thats pretty impressive. When Parker is your 7th ranked prospect?
purple row has a link to indians prospect insider. please read it.
I did forget to mention Cabrera. Tough to say where he’s going to slide into things. I would put him behind Bettis and Anderson. Not sure where I would put him in relation to Tago. Probably slightly ahead based on performance but Cabrera is only one level ahead of Tago in the system but four years older.
A player has 1 good year, the bucks role in. Give me 4 good years out of UJ, yes but 1/2 of a season doesn’t equate to an ace of a staff.
Everyone will be upset. But this is like the Holliday trade. Turned out great! Glad it is over!