Rockies roughed up again by Astros, drop ninth straight
The Houston Astros again shelled Colorado Rockies pitching, collecting 14 hits — including one each from their first six hitters of the game — en route to an 11-2 win and the Rockies’ ninth straight loss.
Rockies starter Drew Pomeranz, who was sharp in his first two major-league starts at Coors Field, allowed three singles and three doubles before recording an out in his first road start, putting the Rockies in a 5-1 hole. He allowed a sixth run in the second inning on a walk and a double and was done after two having allowed six runs on seven hits and a walk with three strikeouts.
The Rockies bullpen did not fare much better. Esmil Rogers, making his first relief appearance since July 30 when he took over for the traded Ubaldo Jimenez, allowed three runs on five hits and walked three in 2 1/3 innings, but did hold the Astros to their one of their two scoreless innings, the third. Josh Roenicke and Matt Lindstrom each allow a run in an inning of work. Only Jim Miller, who retired both hitters he faced after relieving Rogers in the fifth, and Edgmer Escalona, who pitched a one-two-three eighth, had quiet nights on the mound.
Eric Young Jr. and Dexter Fowler combined to put the Rockies on the board first with a single and double to start the game. But the Rockies scored just one more run on a solo home run by Chris Nelson in the seventh and missed several opportunities to make it a game, going 1-for-10 with runners in scoring position and leaving nine runners on base.
Doggone is Rosario and Rogers a winning combination. Not even a good AAA team. 1 game out of last?
Best part of tonight’s game was when I was highlighted in the pre-game as the biggest Rockies fan in Utah :-)
I thought that was you I told my wife that looks like the guy from ITR. Did you get anything for the mention T shirt or something? Still it was cool anything good as of late with Rockies is hard to come by..
Didn’t watch the game so I missed your moment of fame, Jaredean. Happy for you, hope you have it recorded! BTW, I can consider you the biggest Rockies fan in Utah since December 2001. That’s when I moved from Utah back to Colorado. :)
Two whole runs on offense! That’s pretty good. Do we get tacos?
Does anyone on this team, including the manager, care anymore that they keep losing? Does it sting anymore, or are they just going through the motions?
Miketober, I can answer that for you. No, they don’t care about the losing. This will be a long offseason for the players and I hope the fact that management and JT quit on them doesn’t set this team back too far. I know JT got the vote of confidence recently, but can the Monforts really look past how the past two seasons have ended? That might be their best spent money in the offseason, fire JT and eat his contract.
I’ve been out of town since Thursday and won’t get into town Monday or Tuesday morning. Lucky me.
Other teams show spark. Other teams, even when playing rookies and never-has-been and never-will-bees, play hard and win occasionally. This is embarrassing. I’m in the KC area right now and even the Royals are giving their fans hope.
I’m out of town and didn’t watch the game. Not many bright spots. Practically the only thing that I noticed in the boxscore worth cheering about was another solid inning from Escalona. Is Escalona looking like a guy who could win a spot in the bullpen for next year?
Arizona wins FIFTH division title in only 14 years, why? The owners aren’t afraid to make changes! Come on C & D Monfort make some major changes so we can at least try for .500 next year!!!!!!!!!
Can I please borrow that button that fast forwards to Thursday?
How about someone like signing Roy Oswalt next year?
1. Chacin
2. Oswalt
3. DeLaRosa (July)
4. Nicasio
5. Hammel
This last month of the season feels like the end of the 08 Broncos season. Yes that team had injuries but it just folded like my daugter’s Dora the Explorer tent. The end result was that ownership which had not intended to fire Mike Shanahan, did just that (and proceeded to make one of the worst hires in sports history). This team right now has stopped playing, and even we super fans are barely watching. At this point no one who is in operations should be safe. The guys are not playing for Tracy. The pitchers are not listening to DAC. Whatever plans the organization had September 1 (and remember in late August this team had it down to single digits when heading to a road series in Arizona and just imploded), they have to be re-evaluated after this past two weeks. And yes, that might mean an Alex White and Drew Pomeranz need to start next year in AAA to work on things. It probably means that they cannot risk trading CDI (unless they get a Torrelaba as suggested in DP today). The team out there right now (spirit wise) even if it has Helton and CarGo is not going to get even 20K out to watch them and watch the television numbers drop as well. I said a few days ago not to read too much into this losing streak, at least from a long-term perspective. But from a management operations viewpoint, if I am the Monforts I have DOD in my office and saying, “How radical can we be in making changes and have a chance to compete next year?”
A lot of us have brought up the DBacks of 2010. They did make a lot of changes and turned it around immediately. One thing about Gibson, he may not wear well for 5 or 6 season, but his attitude and expectations made this team expect to win every game. I like JT, personally a lot, but does anyone believe since 09 that this team has believed it will win every game? Please Monforts, reconsider everything…this franchise has quit on you and the fans. Its going to take some serious changes to bring us back to believing, and no, a contract extension for JT is not what we are talking about.
I do want to add that there is enough core talent on this team to compete with any other team in the division (leaving aside the lack of a Kershaw, Lincecum, or Kennedy right now). This team could easily turn it around, but as the article on Tulo the other day pointed out, there has to be a serious challenge to the attitude in the clubhouse.
We have CarGo, Tulo, Helton – three plus players at their positions (granted we cannot be sure about Helton going forward). CDI is an upper 10 spot catcher. Dex is making a real change in his future. We have gaping holes at 2nd and 3rd. We have the various pieces to cover the third OF piece in a platoon. The rotation looks like a mess today, but it looked solid in February, so you have to wait to see who the pieces are and which pieces take a step forward (Chacin, Pomeranz, White) and which take a step back (like Ubaldo did). The pen looks like it could be good if it is not used up like this year (I think our pen is just shot at this point). So I see no reason to panic. This team can be good very quickly if it fills its holes with league average production, it gets one or two pitches to step up, it gets a career year from a regular, AND THE ATTITUDE CHANGES! A few year back the Rox were discussed as having too many Christians. The argument among some baseball guys is that creates a too “nice” environment. I dont believe that to be true in the least (I say this as theologian and church historian), but what is needed is team accountability and willingness to confront.
I believe in this team in 2012. But my belief is not going to be matched by buying tickets and getting excited until I see ownership and DOD make the tough choices to bring mental toughness, expectations, and a winning attitude.
“But my belief is not going to be matched by buying tickets and getting excited until I see ownership and DOD make the tough choices to bring mental toughness, expectations, and a winning attitude.”
Doctor-Christopher, welcome aboard. I and many others on ITR essentially said the same thing back in June. Nothing happened then, and I doubt anything will happen now. “2007 wasn’t a fluke year, 2011 has been.” That’s what they’ll sell. Meanwhile I see the latest poll on DP has JT still at 67% approval rating. Good grief.
Another move that backfired whacking Dan O’Dowd right in the face this series: dumping Clint Barmes.
Hey, I was one of the many clamoring for an upgrade at 2B. But how’s this for nasty baseball fate:
Barmes: 3.3 Wins Above Replacement this year. Last season: 0.7
Compare our “top” second base replacements:
Herrera (got the most plate appearances at 2B this year): 0.1 WAR (pretty much the definition of “replacement level”)
Ellis (2nd most plate appearances): 1.0 WAR
Nelson (3rd most): -0.5 WAR (that is, below replacement level)
Jose Lopez (4th most): – 0.3 WAR (same)
Amezaga (picked up the rest): – 0.1 (same)
That all adds up to … 0.0 WAR — exactly replacement level performance from our second basemen this year. That means we would have done just as well (poorly) if O’Dowd had simply signed an Amezaga as a minor league free agent and stuck him at 2B for 162 games.
O’Dowd’s Cure of the Second Basemen continues …
BTW, here’s how the various positions have fared this year:
Catcher: Total 3.7 WAR. Iannetta 3.3 WAR, Rosario 0.3 WAR (nice so far given his limited MLB action), Alfonzo 0.1, everyone else replacement level.
1B: Total 4.0 WAR. Helton 2.7, Giambi 1.3
2B: Total 0.0 WAR (see comment above)
SS: Total 6.2 WAR. Tulo 6.6, Fields – 0.2
3B: Total – 0.4 WAR. It would be hard to do this poorly even if you were deliberately trying to do this poorly. Wiggy 0.4 (I’m attributing all his plate appearances at 3B; I attributed all of Lopez’s to 2B so he’s not counted here), Kouz – 0.2, Stewart – 0.6. Another way of looking at it: pretty much exactly replacement level other than Stewart.
OF: Total 7.9 WAR. Too hard to break down by LF/RF/CF because players moved around a lot. Here’s how it looks. CarGo 4.2, Dex 3.4, Smith 1.7, EY Jr 0.2, Blackmon – 0.6, Spilly – 1.0. Pretty much what everybody knew: we have one very good outfielder, one (Dex) who now looks pretty good, one who is useful in a part-time role (Smith), and absolutely nobody else.
2B, 3B, and one of the outfield positions remain the problems at the positions. And then there’s another looming problem: 1B saw a really nice rebound from Helton, but there’s really no way you can count on him next year.
So when we hear about folks being disappointed in Iannetta or Fowler I get it. But to upgrade from a 3 WAR player to a 4 or 5 WAR player is really, really expensive. To upgrade from a negative WAR player/position to a 2 WAR player at that position shouldn’t be all that tough, but for whatever reason it seems to have been so for the Rockies.
So my offseason rule for position players is this: don’t complain about catcher, SS, CF, or RF (assuming CarGo plays RF). Feel free to complain away about what O’Dowd does to fill every other position.
Thanks AG and bob! The girl from Roots Sports did get my home address to send me something. She didn’t say what, so I’m hoping it is something good!
And I did get it recorded and up on YouTube for my friends to see. It was pretty fun – I didn’t tell my wife and kids it would be on – I just surprised them – they all screamed :-)
Jaredean, I went to you tube and watched. That is really cool, congrats.
Brought up a question though. If you are Jared Blanchard. what is the “ean” in “Jaredean”?
Thats cool.. I think it said you like in Provo right? I lived in Utah back in 2000 and worked at the Albertsons on Center Street I think its still there the place was like 50 years old. Utah would be a great place to move the Rays or Marlins when the new stadium fails build a Pittsburgh like stadium near downtown SLC I bet they would draw really well as long as they didnt price out familys.
Agbayani,I’m not that conversant with how WAR is calculated. If Ellis were to have been the starter all year, and performed at about the level that he has performed as a Rockie, would his WAR still be a 1, or would it be higher? He looks like the front runner to be the starter, given your statistics, and Herrera looks like the front runner to be the backup at 2B and SS.
I’m not ready to give up on Blackmonn yet. The problem is that he’s a lefty, as is CarGo, Smith, and Wheeler. We need to find a right handled outfielder.
Just out of curiosity, what would Pacheco’s WAR be?
Julian, I pulled the WAR numbers off fangraphs. Their version of WAR does what they all do — it looks at batting performance (their Runs Created + is a really good comprehensive stat, but simpler thing like OPStrack it pretty closely), fielding performance (I believe they use Ultimate Zone Rating, which is the best we’ve got, but I agree that there’s still some measurement problems there as in all defensive metrics). Fangraphs then also accounts for base running performance. That’s not just SB/CS. In fact, it’s mostly other things like going 1st to 3rd on a hit, etc. That gives Fowler a bump, which he deserves because he’s a very good baserunner even though he’s not much of a base stealer.
If Ellis had performed at his Rockies level for a full season, we’d be looking at an almost 3 WAR player. That’s very good, almost unheard of good for a Rockies second baseman. It isn’t Pedroia good; he’s at an incredible MVP 7.6 WAR this year. But it’s a whole lot better than the rest of the guys who’ve played 2B this year, who are collectively below replacement level. So I’m for signing Ellis if he’s not too expensive, and he shouldn’t be given his age, injury history, and seeming willingness to give the Rockies a discount. He won’t be a 3WAR guy over a full year next season, but even 1.5 is way better than anyone else in the system can hope to provide.
And BTW Pacheco is right at about 0 WAR in his short big league career.
Rockies 2 years in a row with big losing streaks. Nice personel moves.
I dont like WAR, in part because of its inability to test the true measure of players (sidenote: the defensive metrics so far all stink, and I am not sure you can ever get better than fielding percentage because measuring if a guy should get to a ball is dependent on a lot of factors that are hard to quantify, including defensive alignment, expected pitch placement, read by the defensive players, etc.).
Right now we have this big argument about the MoneyBall movie. I personally cannot stand Brad Pitt, so I wont see it anyways, but I think the beauty of baseball is that it is part stats and part eye of the beholder. We all know when we see a real baseball player, even if his stats as measured by computers falls short. And likewise we know that sometimes stats players dont live up to what you need in a particular position (classic example, our friend CDI, whom I love, and who a lot of stat heads love, but in the end leaves a lot of eyeball fans cold). Trying to measure WAR just seems…well, futile. Does anyone really feel like the play of Tulo is worth only 6 more wins compared to replacements compared to our 2nd bagers? And what is the expectation of a second baseman? I go back to 1988 (boy now I feel old, I was a freshman in college) and Kirk Gibson’s MVP (the dude didnt even get to the AS game that year). Kirk was more than the sum of his parts. Some players and teams are (that 88 Dodger team certainly was). Before I ended up as a theologian I was a business consultant, an MBA focused on organizational development. I would look at business operations and from pure metrics I could never see why this operation was so succesful…it should not be compared to its competitors. But it was. Business people throw around “synergy” so often it makes me sick. But there is something to a group of people working together who can cover each other weaknesses and make the whole stronger. That 07 Rockies team had it. The DBacks appear to have it this year. The 06 Cards had it. Some of those Yankees teams from 06 to 01 had it. The Rox are not going to be able to fill their team with guys who have big +WAR numbers (and dont you know agents follow WAR closely if it helps them). But if we can get the right kind of guys who cover each others weaknesses, and particularly guys who can come through in the clutch, I think this team can make a sharp turn. You cannot have a team of such guys, but fill in the spaces around guys like CarGo, Tulo, and such, and this team can win 90 games and be dangerous.
Right now this team (and watching this extra inning borefest emphasizes this point) is less than the sum of its parts. And really hard to watch.
Go Rox!!!
“Does anyone really feel like the play of Tulo is worth only 6 more wins compared to replacements compared to our 2nd bagers? And what is the expectation of a second baseman? ”
Yep. Six wins is huge. We’ve seen with the Astros what a bunch of replacement level players will produce: probably about a .333 win percentage, or 54 wins (they are doing a bit better because they have –or had — some better players)
So assume you get 4 WAR out of each and every position, not counting pitching. That’s 32 more wins. That makes you an 86 win season even with replacement level pitching. So theresnno such thing as saying “only 6 WAR.”. That’s a fantastic player, the 6 WAR guy.
On another note, how bout them Rockies…
The WAR stats are tough for me.
You can see with your own eyes how many WARCRY Tulo, Cargo and Helton have…Never heard of WARCRY? That would be Win Above Replacement Colorado Rockies Youth.
If we are 1-9 in that last 10 games and normally with those 3 in we would be 4-5. That’s a 3 game swing. Divide that by 3 for each player that would be 1 per 10 games. So basically Tulo, Cargo and Helton are all 16 wins each.
Progmatinee, I think that should be the new stat of ITR. Like the inclusion of the letters C-R-Y. Seems I have done a lot of that without those three playing healthy (and way too much of it even with them healthy).