Tower Diamondbacks are in “Go for it” Mode!
While it is true that there remains a lot of time remaining in the off season, it is also now obvious that the current reigning NL West champions see an opportunity to dominate the NL West over the next couple of years. While the Rockies have been very active with AAAA level starting pitchers and various marginal starting pieces like LeMahieu, the Diamondbacks by there own admission are “going for it” now.
My question for the esteemed ITR group is should the Rockies be going for it in 2012, or rebuilding to compete in 2013-2014 and beyond? Just not sure the Rockies can keep up in 2012 while waiting for DLR and Nicasio to return, and at the same time trying to gain some MLB experience for starting pitchers like Pomeranz and White. Maybe this is the real reason the Rockies now seem to be out of the Willingham chase? Oh well - DanO might not get yet another chance to add that missing big right handed power bat, hmm?
Meanwhile the Padres are terrible, and the Giants and Dodgers seem to searching for several answers as well.
Rich, the link I sent to Woodrow’s breakdown of the Roc’s salary has to be “moderated,” so I’ll try and post the gist of it here.
“Aaron Cook and his $9.9 million are gone, along with Ty Wigginton ($2 million saved in trade), Chris Iannetta ($2.5) and Mark Ellis (the Rockies’ $1 million share of his contract), and Huston Street and his $8 million will be moved soon. Ian Stewart ($2.3) and Ryan Spilborghs ($1.9) are next.
That total is around $27.4 million. And so far this winter, the Rockies have spent $6.4 million on a two-year deal for Ramon Hernandez.”
Other than moving the deck chairs around, I don’t believe the Roc’s have a grand plan for this year or ever. At the time I didn’t appreciate it, but I think losing Kelly McGregor and his vision was a great loss for this club. The desire to excel seems to have left with him.
If I have to choose between competing in 2012 or competing in 2013 – 2014, then I vote for the latter. I think that there is a plan in place, which involves Arenado at 3B, Ruttledge at 2B, Rosario at C, a starting rotation that includes DLR, Chacin, Nicasio, Pomeranz, White, Chatwood, Bettis, Cabrera, and maybe even Matzek and Friedrich, and an outfield that includes Wheeler, Matthes, and Parker (the extra players on this list could become trade bait). So, I’m hopeful that when these guys develop, they become a special group of guys.
In the meantime, the team still needs to add a starter or two (why haven’t they at least signed Kevin Millwood?), and they need to find a starting 2B (I’m not sure that the new guy from the Cubs is that guy). Adding Cuddyer would be great for a year or two if it happens, although by the third year we may wish that we didn’t still have him under contract given the other guys who we have in our system. I think that they could make do with the outfielders that they have (as Agbayani pointed out, the right handed outfielder they picked up recently has good splits against lefties and could be a decent platoon with Smith). I think that the bullpen guys that they have will do OK, although I’m sure that they’ll add a guy to two there. So, I think we can be decent, although not great, with some modest pickups, and I think we have a really bright future with the guys in the system.
You nailed it, Julian: “So, I’m hopeful that when these guys develop, they become a special group of guys.”
That’s my point. Last year was supposed to be the year when the pieces clicked together. That was plan A and, obviously, their plan B was woefully inadequate. Plan C is to unload the deadwood and wait another 2-3 years for the new hopefuls to arrive. It seems more like blind luck than a plan, especially when it behooves the evaluators to give high marks to the prospects they’ve hand picked.
Doc, I don’t disagree that last year was a disaster. But I’m more optimistic than you are are about the future. It’s not just the evaluators who are giving high marks to the young guys. Arenado was the MVP of the Arizona Fall League, and some of the other guys come with recognition from places other than the Rockies’ management. I don’t think that we need to wait 3 years to see the results. I think by late 2012 we’ll start seeing some of these young players (such as Arenado, Rosario, Wheeler, and some of the pitchers, on the Rockies’ roster.
Doc, I’ve referenced Woody’s story a few times over this past week. I’m not always onboard with him but that was a good story.
Just another clarification. According to Troy Renck the rumors surrounding any interest in Willingham were just that. I believe the word he used was “unfounded”.
The NL West will definitely be interesting next season. The Diamonds seem like they still will be contenders. The Giants were public in stating they were mostly happy with their current team. The Dodgers seem to be trying to improve. The Padres? Not a contender. For me the biggest question mark will be the Rockies. Way too many question marks.
I’m not quite the optimist that Julian is. The fact that Mr. Bill Geivitt is sticking around makes me even less optimistic for the future.
Not sure why they’d be interested in Cuddyer but not interested in Willingham. In fact, if I were O’Dowd, even if I weren’t interested in Willingham I’d be planting stories in the press about how I am interested in him, if only to drive down the bargaining power of the very similar Cuddyer.
Cuddyer, career: OPS+ 111
Willingham: 121
Stats suggest that Willingham’s a subpar outfielder (about 5 runs below average over a season), but guess what: so is Cuddyer — almost equally poor. But neither of them is Brad Hawpe awful.
And as I’ve noted before, while Cuddyer is technically more “versatile” as you could stick him at 3B in an emergency, that would be like sticking Ty Wigginton at 3B, and we’ve all seen how that worked out.
Here’s the mystery I’m trying to solve: O’Dowd quite publicly admitted that the idea of signing aging stopgap players like Jose Lopez and Wigginton at free agent rates wasn’t a good model for this team. So what’s he done so far this year? Signed an aging stopgap catcher at free agent rates, and desperately trying to sign an aging free agent corner outfielder at free agent rates.
What’s that old line about the definition of insanity again?
To me it appears that Dan & company are ok with developing the Rockies in 2012 barring a major breakthru or 3, then in 13&14 we hopefully will be developed enough for a contender. This almost has to be the plan without a major siging (Fielder). The Toddfather can’t play forever and that must be in the back on the minds that be also. Gotta love baseball always changing always challenging. PS has anyone noticed that $$ for tickets are up as well. I guess that all the free coors kegs they get aren’t enough to pad the wallet as much as the Monfort’s like??
Couldn’t agree more Agbayani. Since you brought up “stop gap” here is the latest from Renck.
“The Rockies are looking for a short-term answer at third base so as not to block the path of prospect Nolan Arenado, tweets Troy Renck of the Denver Post.”
Ahhh and then there are all of those #6 (ok maybe #5) competing pitchers.
Call me a cynic but the only reason names like Cuddyer get thrown out there is to make fans believe the Rockies actually have an interest in them…not that Cuddyer is a name that really gets anyone too excited.
The reason the Rockies down play Willingham is they don’t want fans to believe the Rockies have too many options, otherwise when they fail to get any of them it doesn’t seem so futile, just kind of futile.
I have a really bad feeling that Brandon Wood is going to be our temporary 3B and that we don’t make a big signing with the money we have saved with all these pointless trades. Not a good offseason so far.
You guys make good points about the players, but what about the management? Will Jim Tracy be back in 2013? If not then what type of leader is the team looking for to make the push?
Nolan Arenado is the guy at 3B, not Wood. The job is his to lose in ST. Pacheco and Nelson are ahead of Wood on the depth chart.
We have the money and be patient guys. One big move will be made
I was talking on my earlier posts at least a couple of times to trade for Trevor Cahill. Strike one against management for not outbidding Arizona for Cshill’s services.
WOW breaking news ESPN is alleging Ryan Braun has tested positive for performance enhancing drugs.
On another note, Matt Latos to the Rockies :>)
IMO,the Snakes have knocked it out of the park 2 straight off season’s compaired to the Rockies.They seem to have done what we said we were going to do,except they actually followed thru.Several on this site have been pushing Cahill and I really liked that idea.It doesn’t seem like he should have been out of our reach and could have been had.RMH,hope you are right,but it looks to me like we are rebuilding for 2013 and beyond.If this were the NBA I’d say we were hoarding money-i.e.developing cap headroom for the future!
Well if you believe the national talking heads, it doesn’t sound like Jurrjens is headed to the Rockies or anywhere. They are sourcing the Braves on this one.
Any ideas about the package of comparable players the Rox would have had to offer Oakland to land Trevor Cahill? According to ESPN:
“The A’s received starting pitcher Jarrod Parker, outfielder Collin Cowgill and reliever Ryan Cook…”
Sounds like the Rockies are still pursuing Kuroda but it is being alleged he may not want to come here.
They are also sourcing the DP/Renck and saying the Rockies are looking for a short term solution at 3rd base. This was posted here yesterday.
Smith for Figgins must be a dead rumor. It’s being alleged Willingham might be headed to the Mariners.
I guarantee Arenado will not be the starting 3B next year. He won’t even break camp with the Rockies. I’m betting brandon wood does.
I would go with Chris Nelson over Wood. As a 1 year experiment for a team not really interested in making a move for 2012 anyway, just go ahead and give Nelson the starting role and see what he does. Sort of like the last ditch effort they gave Nix in 2008. If/when Nelson proves he can’t play in the MLB then the Rox simply cut him and move on. He has no trade value or anything.
Troy Renck needs to make up his mind. Either the Rockies are interested in Willingham or the rumors are “unfounded”. Which is it?
“The Rockies are focused on Cuddyer, tweets Troy Renck of the Denver Post. Should they lose out on the long-time Twinkie, they’ll turn that focus to Willingham.”
Troy Renck is just the messenger. Its the Rockies that need to make up their minds. They should make their best offer to each, see who accepts, and if neither accepts, move on. The waiting game has rarely worked for the Rockies, so they need to move.
By the way, Rosnethal is now alleging the Rockies have interest in Scuturo. He can play ss, 2nd, and 3rd, blah blah blah.
By the way, Rosnethal is now alleging the Rockies have interest in Scuturo. He can play ss, 2nd, and 3rd, blah blah blah
All of this “multiple position” stuff is well and good, but what we need is a guy that can play 2nd base really well (Prado) and another one that plays LF really well (Cuddyer). I think we might already have someone that can play 3rd.
After watching the Broncos apparently all we need is someone to believe in God and we’ll win!
Raysfan, not sure why you’re going negative on the alleged “interest in Marco Scutaro.” Unless, of course, you believe that this is another phony rumor floated out there.
Scutaro is nothing to get excited about, but he would be a huge, huge upgrade over whatever else we’ve had — or will have in 2012 — at 2B. I’m guessing he’d rather play SS somewhere, but he’s at the age where a move to 2B is inevitable within a year or two.
At least he fits the bill for what O’Dowd claims he’s looking for: good patience at the plate, good contact hitter, etc. Because that’s certainly not Ramon Hernandez’s profile.
At this point, after watching all the big signings go and watching us have no interest in even the second-tier signings (Buehrle types), I’d be thrilled with a Scutaro signing. But I doubt it happens.
Agbayani, nothing against Scuturo at all (even though he is with the Red Sox.) Other than he is yet another 30 something player, I believe of all the players alleged through the winter meeting he would probably provide the best help for the Rockies. I doubt the Red Sox will just give him away in a salary dump to keep from paying the luxury tax though.
I do agree 100% with your post.
Yep, it was a combination of endless twits and “unfounded” rumors that triggered my sarcasm. :>) He’s still tweeting. The latest I didn’t bother with. It is about Eliezer Alfanzo and Jeff Mathis. I don’t see the Rockies signing Jeff Mathis but hey at this point nothing would surprise me.
Doc,you made my point.I don’t follow all the prospects like the briniacs on this site[and that's meant as a compliment],but Cahill looks damn cheap and certainly someone we should have pursued at those prices.We certainly have stockpiled enough 4A outfielders and #6/7 rotation guys to have made a competitive bid!
Of course I meant brainiacs-something I obviously don’t possess.And again I love this site because of all you guys with mega knowledge.I like my role as an opinionated old AARP guy who likes to stir it up once in a while,and always learn something in the process.
On MLB Trade Rumors it is reported that Rosenthal is reporting that the Rockies are making an aggressive push for Cuddyer. I’m concerned about having him committed for three years, when we have so many players coming down the pike. I’d rather see the Rockies’ free agency dollars get spent on a couple more starting pitchers and some position players who would take one year contracts.
I like the (slightly) longer contracts because frankly I don’t want to be at the same spot next year looking for yet another 1 year contract. You get the left over scraps on 1 year contracts, not good players.
Making an investment for 3 years on a solid (though maybe non-dramatic) signing at least opens up the possibility of trading an unproven prospect to fill holes.
It does show that the Rockies often overpay for the B level players rather than pay market value on A level players. But who knows, maybe getting out of Minnesota will boost this guys numbers.
I’ll be happy if this signing happens.
I’d rather see them sign Scutaro. Is Cuddyer really an upgrade? What if Cuddyer costs $10m a year for 3 yrs? It has been alleged the offer from the Twins is in the $25-$28M range. If the Rockies are being “aggresive” then they must be somewhere in the $28m+ range.
I see some are now saying the Twins should let Cuddyer walk so they get the two 1st round draft picks.
Would we lose draft pickes if we sign Cuddyer? Although we stink at drafting players, I would nonetheless hate to lose draft picks.
i doubt ROX would lose a pick. I don’t think Cuddyer ranks high enough to be a type A on the new CBA rankings.
How good is Cuddyer at playing 1B? Given the lack of 1B quality in the farm system, does Cuddyer become the 1B after Todd retires, allowing Wheeler/Matthes/Parker to take that spot in the outfield?
Your right Eric. The Rockies would not lose a pick put the Twin fans believe the Twins will get two 1st round draft picks.
Mr. O’Dowd apparently was on XM radio:
“Rockies general manager Dan O’Dowd told Jim Bowden of ESPN.com and MLB Network Radio on SiriusXM that he has yet to make an offer to free agent Michael Cuddyer.”
So apparently he doesn’t want him? I fail to understand why any team fails to give offers to players. In theory shouldn’t the Rox have made an offer to Pujols, Fielder, etc? Whats the harm in trying? So they say “no” so what?
Prog, my question is how are the Rockies “aggressively making a push” for Cuddyer??? Maybe Rosenthal and Renck need to relax and rest their twitter fingers?
I’m predicting Cuddyer signs with the Twins
“[DOD] has yet to make an offer to free agent Michael Cuddyer”
WTF? I don’t understand how this works. Do they have to play footsie for a few weeks (months) before they start writing numbers down, or is DOD referring to official offers? This seems like about as clear a negotiation as you will ever get. We know how much the Twins offered him. Top the offer and bring him to Denver. Maybe DOD is trying to get a discount because of our nice weather and awesome fans.
Just saw the Dbacks signed Saito. Come on Rox do something besides trade away the best SP we’ve ever had, probably the best closer we’ve ever had and arguably the best catcher we’ve ever had!!! This team is frustrating even during the offseason.
Patience, now…it’s not “blue light special” time, yet.
No gonads for DOD or BG, afraid to let someone go for fear it will come back and bite’em the kester.
Actually Steve, maybe it is. Maybe the Rockies are using the non-tendered tracking tool on MLBTR to follow their favorite player(s).
You are right though. There is still plenty of off-season time to sign someone.
Sign someone like who?
Well my hope was, for the type of money available, they would go after a an extremely solid starter. Should have been able to get a pretty good #3 guy. If not then my 2nd choice would be Marco Scutaro.
Sorry but Cuddyer/Willingham/Polanco/Figgins just do not seem like some huge upgrade to me.
Selection just gets smaller the longer you wait. I see no point in waiting for the blue light special, whether its a P or a OF or a 3B. Best players come off the board…then what? The next season ticketholder fan forum is Wednesday. Looks like they will have nothing to announce…
Good for the D-Bax. Now if they only had fans like the Rockies, then they’d be all set.